holt >> pondělí duben 19 - 07:30

As much as I despise this, there is no reason as to why it won't be the successful. People seem to forget that Kerry Packer's World series took place. People may shy away at first, but no one can stay away from seeing the absolute (European) best play week in - week out.

Kalle >> pondělí duben 19 - 08:47

I will not watch :) Just like i don't watch european football now :)

I only follow results online. The games i do watch are from my own favorite dutch team, but i rather go to the Stadium. I find football on tv just plain boring..

Dragontao >> pondělí duben 19 - 10:47

As a Chelsea supporter and long time season ticket holder, I'm done with them after this.

This league will be boring as hell after the novelty wears off, will push transfer fees and player wages even higher.

Joy of reaching the CL semi-finals and F.A Cup final completely blown away by this announcement. Chelsea F.C 1905 - 2021 RiP.

Numpty >> pondělí duben 19 - 11:37, Editováno pondělí duben 19 - 12:04

I don't believe for one moment the reasons given both for and against the proposed league by any of the parties involved. They all act in their own interest, but will always find a way to dress up their respective positions to make it sound reasonable.

The 12 'founder' clubs mostly want more money.   

The footballing bodies, such as UEFA and the various national leagues fear losing control and loss of revenue.  

So I'm going to totally ignore what they say, copy the current proposal (from the BBC) and then consider the likely effect. 

ESL Proposal

The league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.

Under the proposals, the ESL campaign would start in August each year, with midweek fixtures, and the clubs would be split into two groups of 10, playing each other home and away.

The top three in each group would qualify for the quarter-finals, with the teams in fourth and fifth playing a two-legged play-off for the two remaining spots.

From then on, it would have the same two-leg knockout format used in the Champions League before a single-leg final in May at a neutral venue.

So what's the difference with the Champions League?

1. Guaranteed entry for the 12 or 15 founder members.  
2. Fewer clubs in total. Only 5 others can qualify, so it's very exclusive. 
3. More guaranteed matches. 18 group matches each as a minimum.  

The Likely Effect

Assuming this actually took off then the long term effect would be to guarantee huge annual revenue - via TV rights - to the founder clubs. 

The current Champions league would either get abandoned or become a 2nd tier competition meaning all the other top European clubs previously in the Champions League would get less money as a result. 

It would have a similar effect on the national leagues, which would devalue in status. 

The guaranteed membership of the founding members is also a huge turn-off as it makes it impossible for other clubs to reach the top. 

For me that is the real problem with the proposal. If there was less exclusivity and it was genuinely open to all based on footballing merit then it would be less of an issue. 

All of the fan clubs in the UK - of the group of 6 - have come out very strongly against the proposal. Mostly citing greed of the owners and undermining the games traditions.

And who's to say it would stop there? Nothing in life is permanent.

After a few seasons would they want to expand it and break away altogether? The 2 groups of 10 could eventually become a full time time league of 20 and the clubs leave their national leagues behind, which could then become feeder leagues? Who knows where they might want this to go?    

The question is what's actually likely to happen? It could be that this puts more pressure on UEFA to change the Champions League to a similar format. So maybe we'll end up with some kind of compromise?

holt >> pondělí duben 19 - 12:04

@Kalle South American football would still do the job.

@Numpty Regarding your last two paragraphs, UEFA has already planned to make changes in the current format. I don't feel that the current format is perfect, but it didn't require any radical changes.

You can get more detailed information from the official website, but this serves as a good summary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsXoFateukw

Lastly, I feel that the breakaway league could maybe manifest itself into a "carnival competition" just like how you have T-20 competitions such as the Big Bash in Australia and the IPL in India.

Something like 75 minute games, rolling substitutions with say a 5-10 minute cooldown, more leniency towards fouls and in the implementation of VAR etc.

A throwback to the Colosseum times.

Numpty >> pondělí duben 19 - 12:16

I'm aware that UEFA has proposed changes to the Champions League. My point is these breakaway clubs want them to go further - and this proposal  puts pressure on UEFA to find a compromise. 

For myself I partly lost interest a long time ago - when what was the European Champions Cup became the Champions League - so now I rarely bother with watching the group matches. 

There was something special about it being the league champions from each country. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th place clubs who now take part are not the champions.  

Stephen >> pondělí duben 19 - 13:45

I think this topic shows the proposals can succeed. We have here your armchair fans like your @holts and your match-going supporters like your @dragontaos. 

For me, the proposals are not appealing, but then I also go to matches and support the team where I grew up.

Watching on TV is a poor substitute to me to going to a match with your mates and fellow supporters, who, if you follow a local club, are also a part of your community in a time when there is little sense of community.

You don't get to see the pitch as a whole and watch a clever bit of movement or see a mistake start to develop into an opportunity. But plenty are happy to watch their idiots' lantern :)

If the match-going fans don't go, then the stadiums will remain empty. But we've already seen empty stadiums and people still watch the matches on TV. Maybe this would change if there were two products, one with supporters and atmosphere, but I doubt it. In a world where I see plenty of kids walking round in Bayern and Barcelona tops, nothing makes sense anymore.

Numpty >> pondělí duben 19 - 13:58, Editováno pondělí duben 19 - 14:01

@Stephen, I agree. Atmosphere is everything. Even watching a match on a large screen down the pub is better than watching at home. 

Having said that going to watch a match live is not evidence of a real fan.

Case in point, I have a daughter who went to stay with a friend who lives in a small town near Barcelona. The family were season ticket holders and took her to see a match. When she returned I asked her about the match which Barca had won convincingly and she told me she thought it was a friendly. In fact she didn't seem to know much about the match at all. When I looked it up online she'd gone to see a league match.  At least we now have a Barca scarf as a trophy. :)

Alex Seymour >> pondělí duben 19 - 14:19

I thought this was a late April fools joke. This is all about money and will kill off football for the smaller clubs. The division between the Premier League and the EFL is huge as it is, this will only make that gap wider.

Football is going to go the same way as Formula One, soulless and predictable.

holt >> pondělí duben 19 - 14:49, Editováno pondělí duben 19 - 14:50

@Stephen Gadzooks, just because I state some proposals doesn't mean that I support the idea.

Personally speaking, I feel that playing the sport is the greatest experience one can derive from it and if one currently isn't able to attend the matches of the club they support then watching on a screen is the only option left. That doesn't mean that I don't spend just as much time as the other guy going through the team news, tactics, results etc. So the definition of a "real fan" is very opaque.

Besides(general statement, not directed) in almost all the cases, one starts following/supporting a team if:

• A family member introduces them to him/her.
• The first player they liked (eg. Maradona for a Napoli supporter) plays for that team.
• Their first interaction with the team(personally/watching the match and they pull off a smooth move) left a good impression on them.
• Hometown club.

It isn't any deeper than that; no one sits down and goes through all the clubs and their histories, philosophies, future plans and then chooses ie.Anyone from anywhere can (if put under the right circumstances)follow a football club, regardless of place of establishment. If a "newcomer" does actually support his club, he will get acquainted with the know-hows of the club.

The only thing that gets me are those who follow a club to "fit in" or the fairweather fans.

Regarding the proposal itself, considering the number as well as the kind of parties involved, wouldn't they try to coax more an more teams into joining the league until it is a 4-tier system and milk the domestic leagues for talent as the main endgame?

holt >> pondělí duben 19 - 14:52

@Alex F1 has degraded because of how "controlled" everything is.

Try Moto GP.

Alex Seymour >> pondělí duben 19 - 14:55

And having a super league away from grass roots domestic leagues with no relagation and invite only is not 'controlled'?

tAmi!_an >> pondělí duben 19 - 15:17

ESL will be boring ....  No promotion, relegation ... Soon it will be like IPL and ISL (Indian Super League) every year same teams play...each other ....I don't know football so deep like you guys I've been watching football for last 4 or 5 years only and I support Manchester City .... I really loved West ham this season they were really good every season we used to have a new team trying to get to the top... It makes the game more Interesting to watch ....

holt >> pondělí duben 19 - 15:23

@Alex By controlled I mean the rules behind overtaking, DRS and more ridiculous ones such as the fan boost in Formula E.

Stephen >> pondělí duben 19 - 15:34

@numpty, fair point. Perhaps I should have been clearer and said going regularly - that's after all what I meant. I have been to a variety of matches as a tourist and wouldn't claim to be a fan of Hertha Berlin, Bayern or Barcelona, for example. On the contrary, each time I found myself wanting the away team to win...

@holt - my problem with the people who effectively choose their football club is twofold. They inevitably choose a successful club and add to the coffers of that club, even if just in a small way. Second, they deprive the local clubs in whatever country or area of some support and revenue. Sure, there might be people who are able to devote huge time and resources to multiple teams and sports across many countries, but I suspect these people are few and far between. And I have no doubt that some of the overseas fans have some of the most extreme passions/hatred for 'local' rivals, perhaps as an attempt to belong to the 'tribe'.

Also @holt, you did say no one can stay away from watching the world's best. That sort of suggests that you would be watching as I can very much not watch this sort of thing.

I hardly ever watch the Champions League. My main enjoyment when I do is taken from Schadenfreude at watching some bloated behemoth be downed and see the reaction at this huge 'tragedy'. The only trouble is that the opposition are also bloated behemoths most of the time... I don't feel any personal connection and it all just feels a bit, well, disposable.