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English >> Suggestions

A Cup for top half and bottom half teams in each Division. (28)


ee Balthazor >> sunday june 7 - 19:13

Umm...and how to split league with 10 teams- it means 5 teams in cup, very bad number for cup. It would also mean that some teams will try to avoid finishing at end of top half as it would mean stronger cup competition.

The speciality of this game has been closeness to reality. So something like League Cup for stronger and "little cup" to next teams would be realistic, but not in format originally described. Many clubs will not take it seriously. 

In national cup lower league teams have home advantage when playing against club from higher level. So it is possible that lower league team will reach far in cup. In Estonia several League 2 teams have played in cup final (including my team).

ee Balthazor
User
Registered2013-12-01
ee Dünamo Tallinn
eng Dragontao >> monday june 8 - 00:25

The question is, do you keep the full national cup as well. If not then the game moves away from trying to model itself on reality.

If the full national cup is maintained, and additional cups are created for lower divisions, be that one per group or one per level, it will have a knock on effect in the scheduling of matches.

For the English league:

Option 1: National cup retained, additional cup for teams of level 2 and below. A lot of additional fixtures for the team that wins it. You'd still probably need a  number of teams entering later in the competition. Chances are you'll just get a cup with a level 2 team winning it each season.

Option 2. if you had one cup per level there would be 5/6 cups depending on how you set it up and if the national cup was retained, which it should be. 5 if the national cup was still for all teams, but the Level cups were only additional for each level below level 1. In level 5, that's a lot of additional fixtures for the team that wins it.

Option 3: if it was one per group, it would be at least 16 additional cups. A little bit ridiculous. Less fixture congestion for the teams involved in each cup, but with 20 teams per group, some would get byes and enter later. The cups themselves would be ultimately meaningless.

Either way it would mean a lot of extra fixtures and additional server load on the days those games are played too.

You'll then get more moans on the forums about scheduling, fatigue, injuries etc etc.

eng Dragontao
User
Registered2013-09-07
eng Old People's Home
ng Wizzy >> monday june 8 - 08:47
Exactly what makes football interesting. Not just monopoly of the league title and cup by a single team or few you would agree, if you are not toping your league.
ng Wizzy
User
Registered2020-04-01
eng Dragontao >> monday june 8 - 08:55

I'm not topping my league and have never won a trophy (other than divisional titles). I personally wouldn't be interested in winning throwaway trophies that are completely meaningless.

The Level 5, group 8 trophy would be of no worth to me. Beating the 19 bot teams to a worthless virtual trophy wouldn't make me think I'd achieved anything. I pity the products of the society we are creating who need such things.

eng Dragontao
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Registered2013-09-07
eng Old People's Home
ua Kalle >> monday june 8 - 09:57

@Stephen

4. Manage expectations (2). Your competition is with those around you in the same league, not FC Wageningen or one of the other superpowers. Beat what’s in front of you and build up.

My competition is with FC Wageningen ;-) Managed to get a nice 5-1 loss yesterday.

@Elit, im not pro splitting cups. The best teams should win, it's up to other managers to catch up.

As said by Dragontao, i also wouldn't be proud of a price in a cup without the strongest teams.

ua Kalle
User
Registered2013-06-19
nl PEC Zwolle
ng Wizzy >> monday june 8 - 10:30
Yeah, you can be right considering your strenght to compete for the best. None of the teams at my level would contrast. But, 90% of those at your level are obviously saying the same (now you see!). Very funny and am "not surprised". Just as the rich wouldn't realize the suffering of the poor. Or can you explain how do I catch up and compete with the top 9 teams in South Africa 1st Division?
ng Wizzy
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Registered2020-04-01
ua Kalle >> monday june 8 - 11:08, Edited monday june 8 - 11:09

It took me 22 seasons  (3 years 2 months)to get in DIV 1 and now after 25 seasons (3,5 years)  i've played Euro Cup 2 times and got 4 times to the quarter final of the Dutch cup.

And i only started 5 seasons after the beginning of the game and didn't had the same starter bonusses as there are now.

My facility's are still behind the top half of DIV 1, only having TA1 and YA1.

So no, i can't explain you how to catch up, because i'm not even there myself. Most of the time i''m between 10 and 17.

It costs a lot of patience and building, planning, skill ect.

I think it is possible to get in de SA DIV 1 for you quite fast, because below nr 9 there aren't much good teams in SA.

Getting to nr 9 and higher will take time. Maybe as much as 2 real years at least. So have patience, you've only just started.

ua Kalle
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Registered2013-06-19
nl PEC Zwolle
ng Wizzy >> monday june 8 - 11:29
Court!!! Just got to rest my case, Sir Judge Kalle. With due respect, am happy to call you my mentor or a brother (by your conscent though).
ng Wizzy
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Registered2020-04-01
il Numpty >> monday june 8 - 11:47, Edited monday june 8 - 11:48

For new starters the fact that they start such a long way behind is part of the challenge. 

The game is a pyramid that when viewed from the bottom looks a bit like Everest. It's such a long steep climb. 

(I've been playing for a little over 18 months now and I guess I'm nearly half way up so I can see the view in both directions - and we just got lucky this season to reach our first cup QF.)

Those that stay have to embrace the challenge of climbing the mountain, but in the meantime do need to find enjoyment and fun from competing against clubs at a similar level and seeing how well you can do against your peers. 

So for that reason, the idea of having extra tournaments for lower league clubs gets my vote. This happens in real life in most countries and the top tier of professional clubs don't expect to play in them. 

In England, for instance, there are many cup tournaments besides the FA cup and doing well in them always means something to the fans and the participants. If they were of no value they wouldn't exist.

il Numpty
User
Registered2018-10-19
eng Heath Hornets
ua Kalle >> monday june 8 - 11:54, Edited monday june 8 - 11:54

@Elit thank you i think? :) You know you are always free to aks me questions, i'll always do my best to anwers

ua Kalle
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Registered2013-06-19
nl PEC Zwolle
eng holt >> monday june 8 - 13:26

Why not have a "Second and Below" cup and stack teams against each other in terms of popularity/star value ?(crude but still)

It would ensure that a higher proportion of teams from lower divisions would make it through to the later rounds.

eng holt
Newbie
Registered2013-05-18
ua Kalle >> monday june 8 - 13:58

Or a lucky loser cup? Every team who is knocked out in round 3 or earlier gets to play? Just like in Hattrick?

There you have like 4 or 5 cups... you all start in the real Cup, those who get knocked out in round 1 go to a losers cup, up until round 3 or 4.

Those who lose in the first round of the losers cup even get to go to yet an other cup. So everybody plays about 4/5 rounds at least every season.

Then again the whole cup lasts 14 rounds or something, thats a lot more then here.

Only you can't give the winner of that cup a ticket for an international tournament.

ua Kalle
User
Registered2013-06-19
nl PEC Zwolle

@ kalle I wouldn't even support the idea because I wouldn't want every team to get maximum exp from cup games every season. Also some might fancy their chance of winning the second cup, and purposely lose the main cup.

Meanwhile This game is a fast perk game, I wonder if fixtures won't be too congested if more cup games are added.

Maybe I could've suggested an amateur cup, if everyone 1-8months old managers partake on it, but unfortunately every Nation has its own cup 

@Elit to answer your catch up doubt

it isn't hard to catch up now, I wouldn't say play for a little longer to do so, I would say exploit the ongoing strategy, crisis, Direction,

The only time it was hard was when the top team's are spending 1b, while we can't buy the 12m bank sales those days.