Forum: Anglais 
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Anglais >> Suggestions
Remove talent impact on star value (17)
I suggest we remove talent impact on star value as it does not indicate how good a player is at all while all the other ingrediences in some way do to some extent.
The only thing talent provides the ability to improve, it has no factual impact on the players ability and is only misleading.
This can and probably has a big impact on national teams.
I believe it is easier for managers to only go by it.
Perhaps also the selection list is to some extent dependent of it?
I had no idea that Talent was a factor in the star value of a player.
Is this just a personal theory or has it been confirmed somewhere by Vincent?
Edit
I've just checked the Help which appears to confirm that Talent is not used in the calculation for star value.
https://rockingsoccer.com/en/soccer/help/home/category-2/article-46
- These stars are calculated based on the trainable skills, speed, power and position experience.
So according to the Help the variables used for star value are Blocking, Duelling, Passing, Scoring and Tactics plus Speed, Power and position xp.
Talent is not mentioned.
I think it appears somehow in youth bonus. If you compare two players with similar skills and same age, supertalent has bigger youth bonus.
@B - Do you have an example of that?
I've not checked the detail, but my evidence suggests that the youth bonus is related to age.
In any event the youth bonus does increase their actual skills which makes them a better player and the star value correctly reflects the youth bonus.
I might be wrong but I have made a similair notice as Balthazor where this seems to be the case.
Okay, I've just done a cursory investigation so there's a small possibility I have made a mistake ...
However, my initial result is that all players of the same age get exactly the same youth bonus. As measured by the number of extra balls.
Compare these 2 for example:
A supertalent:
https://rockingsoccer.com/en/pilka+nozna/info/player-2020274
and one of mine, who is exactly the same age:
https://rockingsoccer.com/en/soccer/info/player-1946643
So they have exactly the same youth bonus despite having a significant difference in talent.
I have now checked this more thoroughly.
The age of the player is the only factor in the youth bonus, and Talent is not relevant.
Youth bonus details
A youth bonus is given to all young players and reduces to zero at the age of 22 years 0 weeks. All players of exactly the same age have the same bonus.
Younger players get more and the bonus reduces as the player gets older. It is non-linear and the rate of reduction increases with age. As can be seen below:
- 14 year, 0 weeks 1.72 balls
- 15 year, 0 weeks 1.57 balls
- 16 year, 0 weeks 1.41 balls
- 17 year, 0 weeks 1.24 balls
- 18 year, 0 weeks 1.06 balls
- 19 year, 0 weeks 0.86 balls
- 20 year, 0 weeks 0.65 balls
- 21 year, 0 weeks 0.40 balls
- 22 year, 0 weeks - no bonus
Approximate formula
This isn't the exact formula but it's a very close approximation:
Youth bonus = (w**0.7)/40 (bonus balls)
Where w is the number of weeks before the player reaches the age of 22 years 1 week.
(If anyone finds the precise formula please let me know.)
I think this has nothing to do with the formula. I think it's adjusted to a certain pattern. I'il find out how it's calculated in 1-2 days.
There is nothing that can be explained by the formula
- 21 year, 0 weeks 0.40 balls
- 21 year, 1 weeks 0.40 balls
- 21 year, 2 weeks 0.39 balls
- 21 year, 5 weeks 0.37 balls
- 21 year, 6 weeks 0.37 balls
- 21 year, 7 weeks 0.36 balls
- 21 year, 8 weeks 0.36 balls
- 21 year, 10 weeks 0.35 balls
- 21 year, 18 weeks 0.30 balls
- 21 year, 19 weeks 0.29 balls
- 21 year, 22 weeks 0.27 balls
- 21 year, 24 weeks 0.26 balls
- 21 year, 27 weeks 0.24 balls
- 21 year, 28 weeks 0.23 balls
- 21 year, 29 weeks 0.23 balls
- 21 year, 31 weeks 0.21 balls
- 21 year, 33 weeks 0.20 balls
- 21 year, 34 weeks 0.19 balls
- 21 year, 36 weeks 0.18 balls
- 21 year, 37 weeks 0.17 balls
- 21 year, 38 weeks 0.16 balls
- 21 year, 43 weeks 0.12 balls
- 21 year, 44 weeks 0.11 balls
- 21 year, 46 weeks 0.09 balls
- 21 year, 47 weeks 0.08 balls
- 21 year, 48 weeks 0.07 balls
- 21 year, 49 weeks 0.05 balls
- 21 year, 50 weeks 0.04 balls
- 21 year, 51 weeks 0.03 balls
- 22 year, 0 weeks 0.00 balls
I searched a bit and found this information. Find the missing weeks and let's add it here.
I collected a lot of the data which was mainly necessary to suggest an approximate formula. I can post it up if you wish.
I don't understand what you mean by "nothing that can be explained by the formula".
In my opinion it's very likely that a formula or algorithm is used to calculate the bonus for each player rather than Vincent making a manual lookup table which would be poor programming and rather laborious.
So if a formula/algorithm exists then it's also capable of being reverse engineered.
However, if you want to make a lookup table then I suggest this is done in a new thread created for that purpose.
Regarding the original suggestion, it seems to me that Talent has no actual impact on star value and no evidence has been put forward to show otherwise.
I agree with you.
how do you think we can reach the conclusion of the information given above by finding a formula.
As you can see, the bonus balls in some weeks are the same. which means that we cannot achieve results using a formula.
I rather suspect the bonus isn’t the same, strictly speaking. The numbers will be the subject of rounding up/down making the number look the same though it is slightly different. We see this elsewhere in the game too.
Stephen's absolutely correct.
The numbers are all rounded to two decimal places. This is perfectly normal for most published data. That doesn't prevent a formula being achieved, but it does make it a little more difficult to work backwards from the data.
However, any formula is incidental and not relevant to the main topic - which is about Talent and star rating.
I only suggested finding one because it's easier to be able to calculate the youth bonus without having to find all the data for a look-up table. It's really not that important.
The formula that I posted above is actually a very close approximation and good enough for most purposes.
It just seems that supertalents get more youth bonus
I have no idea how to explain this but...
Lets say you have 2x 21y0w forwards, one is 5 scoring and 1 training click gives him 0.15 balls of value
other is 21y0w 6 scoring and 1 click gives him 0.2 balls of value
the youth bonus will give both of them the same scoring , but the 6 scoring dudes star value goes up more
Supertalents just hit higher skill levels faster so it seems like they get more bonus.
@ Taavi
Yes, it just seems that supertalents get more youth bonus. Players with higher skills get a higher star value and also a higher youth portion of the star rating. (But no extra youth bonus.)
What you are seeing is that the star rating rises in a non-linear fashion.
That's a different issue and not related to the youth bonus, although I can see why some might think that.
So with your example of the 1 click on both players:
- A player with 5 scoring goes to 5.05 scoring and his star value goes up by 0.15.
- A player with 6 scoring goes to 6.05 scoring and his star value goes up by 0.20.
With the same youth bonus, of say 0.5 balls, then the youth portion of the star value of the second player will also rise more.
Adding on the youth bonus the scoring of the 1st player goes from 5.50 to 5.55 and the scoring of the second player goes from 6.50 to 6.55.
The star value of the youth bonus might, perhaps, increase by 0.25 in the first player and 0.35 in the second player. This simply reflects the non-linear increase in star value with Scoring of 5.55 and 6.55.
As a result of the higher skills the star value of the second player rises more. Both the base value of the star rating and also the youth part of the star rating.
The youth part of the star rating is calculated as if the players had Scoring of 5.55 and 6.55 respectively. (Plus the increase in the other skills as well).
In other words a 0.5 ball increase in Scoring contributes much more to the star value when added to Scoring of 6 compared to Scoring of 5.
This had nothing to do with Talent per se (or the youth bonus), but simply reflects that he has higher skills in the first place. Players with higher skills may seem like they get more youth bonus, but they in fact do not.
Players with equal skills will see the same increase in the star value regardless of their Talent.
(I might put some examples up later, as it's often easier to understand that way.)