Форум: Английский rss-feed

Язык для обсуждений на этом форуме: Английский. Когда вы пишете на этом форуме, вы должны использовать данный язык. Сообщения на других языках могут быть удалены без предупреждения. Форум содержит подфорумы с разными темами или предложениями. Убедительная просьба оставлять сообщения именно в том разделе, который соответствует тематике Вашего сообщения. Если вы нашли ошибку напишите о ней в разделе "Сообщить об ошибке" Спасибо за понимание.

Английский >> Предложения

remove luck and random factor - unfair transfer and game results (21)


eng ipfreely >> Понедельник Апрель 19 - 06:38

2 words: no chance.

eng ipfreely
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-12-08
vi Lollapa Losers
nl Aad Mansveld >> Понедельник Апрель 19 - 06:52

boehoe :rofl::rofl::rofl:

nl Aad Mansveld
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-06-09
nl **** The Hague FC ****
ua Kalle >> Понедельник Апрель 19 - 08:01

Luck and random are a essential part of this game and football in reallife :)

ua Kalle
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-06-19
nl PEC Zwolle
il Numpty >> Понедельник Апрель 19 - 08:46, Отредактирован Понедельник Апрель 19 - 08:48

In any event it's not really a game of luck. It's a game of probabilities, which is not the same thing at all.  

All each manager can do is attempt to influence the probabilities in their favour. If you're the stronger team you try and maximise your advantage and if you're the weaker team then try and reduce your opponent's advantage to give yourself a better chance. 

Probabilities, of course, do have a random factor. This keeps the game challenging and fun. If every match had a predictable outcome then the game would become very boring.

il Numpty
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2018-10-19
eng Heath Hornets
eng Stephen >> Понедельник Апрель 19 - 13:23

@Numpty explains this well. All you can do is to continue to increase your team's strength and thereby increase your probability of getting a good result, as well as dealing with things that are perhaps more a case of bad luck, such as getting a bad injury to a key player during a match.

eng Stephen
Главный администратор
Зарегистрировано2013-08-28
eng Seaburn Beach
eng Cloughie >> Понедельник Апрель 19 - 20:13, Отредактирован Понедельник Апрель 19 - 20:14

I'm a life long Nottingham Forest fan and a betting man. I've watched my team get beat by teams who are struggling and are missing their best players, I've also been to games where I've thought we are going to get hammered and this will be an awful journey home ... but because football IS football sometimes that journey home can amazing as we've turned a top team over!

I say this cause I don't think football is always about who has the best team on paper (star value) but who performs on the day. 
mid this game had no random factor I think it would be boring

eng Cloughie
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-10-15
eng Robbing Hoodies
ee onuelver >> Вторник Апрель 20 - 04:17

It would be boring if every result can be calculated on paper or bank and possible that we would not have many different football/soccer games just like we have almost no basketball manager games as there clearly weaker team can't dominate whole match to win it. Just the fact that one random moment can decide whole match make football interesting.

ee onuelver
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2014-09-02
ee Puka City Strikes Back
ee Balthazor >> Вторник Апрель 20 - 07:24, Отредактирован Вторник Апрель 20 - 07:34

In paper I would never win any cups or achieving any top5 places as my teams never were in top5 at star value. There are other factors too like special attributes, tactical differences, ...

And it's not only question of luck for team, where all players in first team are 30+. Older players will be tired quicker and in my opinion perform averagely weaker than players with same strength but are younger. But that's probably price to pay for being in developing team phase. You have still to build some levels of facilities to reach next level. 

Statistical numbers depend also on tactics: you can push number of shots with some tactical choices which may not support increasing number of goals. Just like in real life: weaker team which has problems to arrive into opposite box may attempt with lot of long shots, but most of them are not very dangerous, keeper will see them early and choose his position correctly if they are coming between posts. So big number of shots may mean nothing IRL too and there were periods, when in Europe were dominating catenaccio teams which had typically less shots like Liverpool, Chelsea and several Italian clubs. This game originally claimed to be as realistic as possible. 

ee Balthazor
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-12-01
ee Dünamo Tallinn
ca Maniaque >> Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 11:30, Отредактирован Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 11:37

Kalle thats what i said , this game is not real life. Thats why luck and random result should not happen. Again today i had another stupid lost. It happens too many times. I could live with it if that would happen one game on 30 but this happens to my team way too many times in a season. It just make no sense. This is not real life but a computer game calculated with stats and luck should not play such a big part in it. There are already many things that can change the result like the endurance , speed and many other things regarding our players and many things like home or away game and the age of the players and the alignment and formation and style of play.... There is no need to add to it a luck and random results factor to it. I think you guys are all wrong.

ca Maniaque
Новичок
Зарегистрировано2018-10-12
il Numpty >> Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 11:49

How do you know the other side didn't deserve to win, and also how many matches have you won against the run of play?

In the end the random element will usually even out over a number of matches. 

Regarding your suggestion, you can't simply remove the probability part of the game without replacing the calculations with something else.   That would require an extensive rewrite of how the game works.

And if you remove the random element how are you going to decide which team should win, what the score is and how to decide which matches should be drawn?

The 2 teams in any match are never identical so in your scheme even drawing would be unfair. 

il Numpty
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2018-10-19
eng Heath Hornets
eng ipfreely >> Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 12:07

"I think you guys are all wrong" - so one person is right and 10 or more are all wrong?! :-D

eng ipfreely
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-12-08
vi Lollapa Losers
eng ipfreely >> Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 12:09

What would be the point of playing matches if we knew all of the results before they started - perhaps half a season in advance? It baffles me why anyone would argue this point. Saying whay I really think would get me banned!

eng ipfreely
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2013-12-08
vi Lollapa Losers
ca Maniaque >> Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 15:32

ipfreely no we dont know more the results if we remove luck. there are many other things that affect results other than luck. each player has its abilities and strength and it would not be possible for most if not for everyone to calculate the result of a game just at watching each player stats. this has nothing to do at all. i asked questions a few times to the staff and they always explain results and stupid scores saying that there is luck and such things. i think this makes no sense at all. everything in the game is about stats. like i already said , we buy players and train them for their stats. not for luck. there is no luck ability to players in the game or such. this is more like a random thing and this is what i dont agree with. because we pay our players and build our teams on stats and not on luck. i think it makes some results totally ridiculous and unfair for people who spend time on buying players and training them for their stats and see their teams lose games that they shoiuld not have lost just by looking at stats and teams and how the game was played when we check what happened like the number of shots and the other stuff in the game.

ca Maniaque
Новичок
Зарегистрировано2018-10-12
il Numpty >> Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 16:49, Отредактирован Воскресенье Апрель 25 - 18:18

@Maniaque -

You've now stated a few times that some results 'make no sense at all'.

This is simply not true. The game is pure programmed logic. I'm beginning to think that maybe you haven't properly understood the explanations of how the game actually works. 

Almost every aspect of the match engine is based on probabilities. There are many calculations done for every minute of the game. If and where the players move, whether they attempt to pass, dribble, tackle, shoot, intercept etc. and the outcomes of these attempts are all probabilistic. 

The player attributes, formation and match tactics all feed into these calculations and absolutely nothing is a certainty. 

The point is that there is not a small or even a large random element to the game. It is completely and totally integrated into all the calculations.  

How exactly do you wish to change that?

Simply asking to remove the random element is not enough. You have to explain how you wish it to work differently. 

Edit

You also say that because the game is based on numbers or stats then the outcomes should not be random... "there is no luck ability to players in the game". 

Again, this is not true. If you read the Help files carefully then it tells you that each of the players' attributes are used for chance outcomes and not fixed outcomes.  

"... everything in the game is about stats. like i already said , we buy players and train them for their stats. not for luck. "

This is an understandable view. But it's also a rather simplistic and naive view of mathematics where every outcome is certain. In fact mathematical models and the numbers used can be categorised as either deterministic (a definite outcome) or stochastic (probabilistic). Numbers by themselves - just because they are a number - don't imply a deterministic model,  and in the case of RS it is clearly a stochastic model.  

For instance (from the Help) :

  • Blocking - "it determines the chance he can stop a shot"
  • Passing - "passing skill.... determines the chance on success"
  • Scoring - "High scoring increases the chance"
  • Speed - "a player with a lot of speed is more likely to move"
  • Power- "a lot of power is more likely to succeed"

It's very clear that all the attributes themselves are defined as being used in probabilistic and uncertain outcomes. 

The same is true for the match events. These are all calculated as chance outcomes based mainly on the attributes of the players involved. This is how the whole game works. And the Help tells you that very clearly.

il Numpty
Продвинутый
Зарегистрировано2018-10-19
eng Heath Hornets