Mike >> dimanche novembre 19 - 03:16

Hi USA Managers, 

This is a long post, but wanted to share as this topic will be coming up on the forums soon.

On October 29th I was judged to have match fixed during this match.

https://rockingsoccer.com/zh/soccer/info/match-24689451

My punishment is that I am suspended 2 transfers windows.  During this time, I have been unable to post, buy other teams advertised matches and most significantly take part in the transfer window.  The good news is Stephen (head admin) reactivated me briefly so I can nominate myself to be the Costa Rican manager.  For that I am thankful.  I will not likely be able to post again until after the transfer window at the start of Season 77. 

I ended up having a lengthy discussion with the admins on this and I would like your support on revisiting this rule and its enforcement.  We are going to be opening up this discussion when I come back online in a few weeks, but I wanted to plant the seed with you now.

The reason I was suspended was because I played my 2nd string goalie in a match and my backup goalie had over 20 stars. The admins determined that I was trying to lose the Champions league and move into the North American league.  In all my match simulations, I had very little chance of winning so I just wanted to get my younger GK experience as I am going through a rebuild there just as in the USA.  If I really wanted to lose, I would have lost the prior round in the tounament. THE "BOARD" ALSO APPROVED THE LINEUP.

The admins cited this rule below where even if the Board approves a lineup, you can still be punished.  Evidently there has been widespread abuse of people looking to move down from Champions league to get the lower level trophy.

https://rockingsoccer.com/en/soccer/help/home/category-1/article-78

I have been playing for a LONG time, but was not aware of this rule in the article.  As punishment, my account was immediately deactived without warning.  

Here are my abridged comments to the admins:

*****

1. Personal context. I am a 48 year old father of 3 who owns a manufacturing company. I've been playing this game for years because it is a nice distraction and is entertaining. I have been a VIP3 for years.

2. Overall Game context. If you read all of my prior posts on the various forums, none have been controversial. In the USA, I always lead a forum discussion for each season. I also run the Costa Rican team for years and we've had success.

3. Punishment games context - If I really wanted to go into NA Champions league I would have lost my Qualifying round 3 earlier. If I really wanted to lose to Cataclysm then I would have played my 3rd string goalie. Also, all the many simulations had me losing to Cataclysm even with my best GK playing full-time. 

I bring these context points up because I feel I am the type of player RS would want to keep happy and in the fold. I am active, well-intentioned, thoughtful, long-tenured, paying at VIP3, non-controversial and interested in the games continued success. I also bring this up because I am a busy Dad and husband running a company and I had NO IDEA of the rule you cited. NONE. Surely I am not alone.

This is where I feel admin overreach comes in. Instead of simply giving me a heads-up about this rule, I get punished without warning. This comes across as RS Admins acting like local government officials citing some obscure bylaw that punishes a well intentioned local business who did not know about this rule because they were too busy running their business. The town official can stand on their moral high ground and revert to saying something like "look at this bylaw in chapter 5 article b sub-paragraph 4" so they can have a clean conscious and sleep well at night. That should not be the reality though! Not everyone knows about the rule and the enforcement is uneven at best. Admins need to be accountable to better communicate and enforce this in my opinion.

Questions
1. When does my suspension end? I know it is mid season 77, but not clear when.
2. How many people have been punished for this? It seems like very selective enforcement.
3. Why are administrators not advertising repeatedly "DO NOT PLAY YOUR 2nd KEEPER EVER IN CHAMPIONS/CONTINENTAL LEAGUE"? This should be in bold stars everywhere and a reminder sent each season. If I as a regular daily active user was not aware of this rule, then many others likely are unaware as well.
4. Will you allow me to post about this topic on the forums when I come off verification? I think it would lead to a good discussion and ideally a revisiting of this rule/enforcement.

Again, my philosophy around RS is I expect every team to do what is in their best interest as they define it and the governance of this would be controlled by the match engine lineup board, not a rule that I had no idea about. This has served me well for years so I was shocked when I got put into RS jail.

******

The good news is this that the admins seemed to respect/understand my position, even though they still punished me.  They did allow me to run as Costa Rican manager, but I have not been able to post or buy players to the transfer window.  They also said they would open up the discussion once I come off of suspension in Season 77. 

I have this short window here to post while I am active to register for Costa Rican national manager (thank you Stephen), but I will be suspended again momentarily and not be able to post further for a few weeks.  I wanted everyone here aware of this as I think highly of our league.  I welcome your feedback and support even though I won't be able to comment for awhile.

Thanks for reading.

-Mike

valentine >> dimanche novembre 19 - 06:17

Without Vincent, admins are dictators of this game world.

Peter >> dimanche novembre 19 - 13:59, Modifié dimanche novembre 19 - 14:01

I have nothing to add. Wrongful suspension; it's like firing someone after a first minor offense without writing them up or giving them a verbal warning. Furthermore, why would you do this to a long-time manager like Mike, who you'd want to keep around, purely out of interest for the game and keeping it alive?

Disgraceful!

I am considering just copy-pasting Mike's post in the forums because he himself can't do it. I can't help but wonder if that would get me suspended from posting as well.

Is anyone aware of some obscure rule that prevents me from posting about this in the general forums? Lol

Mike >> dimanche novembre 19 - 17:29

Thanks Peter and Valentine.  Appreciate the support!  Please don't post just yet as I would like to be able to chime in when I'm back permanently as I have pretty strong opinions on this.  Thanks!

Mike >> lundi novembre 27 - 20:10

Hi all,

Good news.  I am now released from punishment a little early.  Stephen suggested I start the topic on the forum so I will.  Would welcome your support there.

Xandy >> vendredi décembre 1 - 22:52, Modifié vendredi décembre 1 - 23:04

I think the punishment is excessive anddoesn't fit the action or crime if you must. The parallel to real life soccer is  for example a PL  club might get fined and have points docked if it fielded a squad outside the 25 registered players. But they wouldn't just uninvite the club and prevent it from buying/selling players. 
The decision "did this team lose on purpose " is based on subjective opinion. And in similar scenarios, most sane or good administrators in Real Life err on the side of the person or entity being accused (at least in RL). I concur that  this question should be more objective like did he play a GK 20% worse than the best uninjured GK.

Managers will typically want to do what's best for their club. For example when a team has no chance of winning against an opponent what's the point in risking injury before an important game that's coming up

Hope to see you back on soon. GL!

Peter >> samedi décembre 2 - 14:16

@Mike genuine thought.

What would you have done if you somehow matched up against Coxinhas in an international tournament and the admins permanently banned you for match fixing?

Mike >> samedi décembre 2 - 18:46, Modifié samedi décembre 2 - 18:47

@ Peter.  Good question.  Your game scenario actually happened when both teams were near their peak a few seasons back and we faced of in the Champions League Semifinals.  The Colonials were slight favorites with the simulations, but the Coxinhas prevailed as the Coxinhas goalie stood on his head.  I was fine with either team winning as I knew it would be long odds against the Hounds in the Final.  My recent deactivation was the first I've heard from admins.

@ Xandy - I am now back activated as I got released early.  Hopefully I avoid a parole violation!

The topic generated some discussion on the forums, but not much to be honest.  Thought the admins would weigh in, but they have yet to do so.